Previous poster claimed that in a narrow stance, the bar did not travel as far. I think Veronica gave the best advice of the thread. Once the shins are placed firmly against the bar, you will sit back and pull yourself into and under the bar. Stay tuned for the next one, which will go over the five basic cues for squatting that I teach verbatim at all of my seminars. Sort by. This limits the amount of weight you can pull off the floor and in some people can put unnecessary strain on the knee ligaments. Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of people using a deadlift stance that is too wide. You may also experience instability in a wide stance because your base of support (although wide) extends laterally—from side to side, not from front to back. The narrow stance lift is usually a simpler movement to learn than the sumo style an calls for power in the quads, flexible ankles and a strong back and abdominal wall. Still, make sure your elbows get under the bar good and wide when you're doing your actual Zerchers or you'll end up with horrible back pain. https://www.powerliftingtowin.com/squat-to-deadlift-carryover The sumo deadlift is popular with some powerlifters, but not most. The chief target is the erector spinae muscles in your back, according to ExRx.net, an anatomy and physical training website. When you are TOO WIDE, the body will have some compensatory functions that will come into play. These are my general suggestions to identify individuals who tend to be too wide or too narrow when it comes to their squats. Neutral double overhand grip...until you reach your max. If the answer is yes, do sumo. In high school football workouts the coaches didn't which one you chose. The conventional deadlift has a greater range of knee extension and involves the spinal erectors to a greater degree than the sumo style deadlift. Muscle Building Supplement – Proper nutrition. Although, is this logic in accordance with what the research says? If you or your training partner falls onto the inside of the foot, this is a potential flag that he or she is too wide. There are a host of other variables that can attribute to this, but having too wide of a stance is one of them. Your feet shouldn't be as wide as your normal squat stance, but also shouldn't be as narrow as your normal deadlift stance either. Once you are doing it to feed your muscles inside your legs your arms your core where you lift up the wide vs narrow deadlift weight was 235 pounds. I cannot tell you how many people I have told to change their shoes and stances during the past calendar year with positive results. Narrow vs. I find that narrow allows me to go lower, but i'm not sure of the pros/cons of both, if any? Also, with video, you can see clients of all shapes, sizes, and athletic backgrounds squatting on a weekly basis, with added visual and verbal feedback from them. your switch grip will allow you to pull more but wont develop grip strength as well as the overhand. I squat low bar with wide stance as my main movements, and squat high bar with narrow stance as assistance. Source: Paoli, A., Marcolin, G., & Petrone, N. (2009). Finally, the ultra wide stance and significant toe flare typically employed on the sumo deadlift can create inflammation in the hips as well as promote dysfunctional and unnatural lower body mechanics. With your feet spread so far apart, your hands will want to grab the bar closer together than in a conventional deadlift, typically at about shoulder width. Being a coach and a competitive powerlifter imposes interesting ideas, opinions, and hypotheses into your head when you are transitioning daily between the roles of athlete and coach. Also, you won’t be able to flex your quads and move your hips properly through both movements. Moving onto the more popular stance nowadays for competitive lifters and for people in general: narrower stance squats. I was wondering if anyone had any input on this topic. When I first started using this squat style more often, the first thought that came to my head was Tom Platz, aka “The Quad Father” on the hack squat machine, and under the bar for that matter. RECENT: Where Do Powerlifters Go From Here? I often get clients coming to me who have been lifting before and want to get their form checked. I was just wondering what is everyone's take on their preferred squat stance. This fixed any squat issues they were having due to the inability to "turn on" their glutes. Wide Stance Squats? As with all squat variations, choose the one that feels most natural to you at first. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. I say that because of the stance of the feet. This is magnified when you feel how a movement affects you, such as a squat, paired with video feedback of yourself. He used to position his feet extremely close and perform the movement for a variety of reasons, one of them being quad hypertrophy. Use both squat stances in your training to maximize leg development and squat strength. Wide or Narrow - "Sumo" or "Conventional"? It can help fix a good morning style squat . There are a host of other variables that can attribute to this, but having too wide of a stance is one of them. Here are a few key points to determine if this is the issue. Wide stance squats are are not as good as narrower stance squats at building muscle mass for the simple reason that the range of motion is shorter. More from Starting Strength. 38 comments. The squat-stance deadlift essentially combines the benefits from both the sumo and conventional deadlift while eliminating the inherent weaknesses of each. Buy Three, Get One Free - Just add four to your cart. Yes, since your feet are wider your hips are lower by a few inches so the bar will be a little lower at lockout. In high school football workouts the coaches didn't which one you chose. Either stance challenges the shit out of my quads. With the squat-stance deadlift you'll pull with the strongest, safest, and most efficient biomechanics, which means less injury and more progress. share. If not, do … You may also experience instability in a wide stance because your base of support (although wide) extends laterally—from side to side, not from front to back. One huge mistake is when people try to deadlift too wide on the sumo. Location: San Diego CA. Picking up Training After 60 –Steven Miller, Hygieia Strength & Conditioning . By failing to do so, you are not going to have the proper knee tracking and coordination. Over time, the recessive forces exerted on the knee could lead to patellar tendon strains or tendonitis. This chosen squat position has just as many potential compensations as going too wide does. Narrow stance squatters took a stance around shoulder width (87-118% of shoulder width) medium stance squatters took a stance around 1.25-1.5x shoulder width, and wide stance squatters took a stance around 1.5-2x shoulder width. Key Differences Between a Wide and Narrow Swing. Later, you can adopt a position that targets particular muscular zones. Can anyone give me some input on what the difference is. A second general sign that you're too narrow is that you (or your client) can't activate glutes at all during a squat, or no hinging is taking place in the squat pattern. Adopting a very wide stance works the inner thighs, hamstrings, and glutes more. You will see his or her lower back shift into rounding, allowing the pelvis—which is also the structure in which the hip capsule sits—to rotate around the head of the femur instead of the femur rotating to create space in the hip capsule. 8 years ago. The issue here is that the capsule is not being actively opened and maintained. report. Posts: 7,413 Re: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) Do you have a body type or anthropometry that prevents you from pulling effectively in a conventional (narrow) stance? Depends on what you consider "wide". hide. However, it masks the need for it. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. level 1. Member Profile: Join Date: Feb 2009. This thread is archived. Do you have a body type or anthropometry that prevents you from pulling effectively in a conventional (narrow) stance? The researchers measured the knee and hip moments and moment arms at varying points in the lift. I was wondering if anyone had any input on this topic. When you fail to keep the femurs held in external rotation, and the knees collapse in, the legs are held at less of an angle, the back folds over more, and what you’ve essentially got is a wide stance conventional deadlift. Deadlift Stance by Mark Rippetoe | May 12, 2016. View Full Version : Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift). The 330 lb Press: … 2) Tempo lateral deadlift 10 per side 3) A turn handoff swing 20 4) U turn handoff swing 20 5) Kickstand A turn handoff swing 10 per side 6) Alternating kickstand A turn handoff swing 20 7) Around the body handoff 20 each direction 8) … The wide-stance deadlift works a number of major muscle groups. http://board.crossfit.com/showpost.php?p=790364&postcount=32 WFS. 08-11-2010, 12:40 AM. When it comes to proper execution of the squat-stance deadlift, the position and mechanics should feel very simple and natural. Hey, just my change to throw in...Narrow is the way to go! Somewhere on here is a "calculator" that compares all your different body measurements and tells you if you're better suited for sumo or conventional but I'm on my phone so I can't find it. In these situations, their glutes were too narrow, and they weren't hinging properly. If you place your hands 10 cm wider than usual, it is just an awkward deadlift that will not differ much from classical. Your torso needs room at the bottom, so point your feet out 10 to 20 degrees. By comparison, reaching squat depth with a wide stance requires a lifter to maintain a more vertical shin position than a narrow stance. Since then it seems like everything CF-related says narrow stance, but I also have friend who powerlifts competitively and swears by a wide stance. One of the last common clues that you are too wide in your squat has to do with your feet. save. The sumo stance is performed by approaching the bar and taking a wide stance well outside of the shoulders. best. So, if you've been struggling with your squat in the past, your stance may be the culprit. i feel that a wider stance gives me way more balance on rails, and it seems that it makes spinning either on the ground or in the air easier. FWIW, most (male) deadlift records have been set with a conventional stance, and the biggest deadlift of all time, as well as the best deadlift by coefficient have been done with a conventional stance. Visually, you will see a lifter not hinge as much, and when he or she hits the hole, his or her femurs have nowhere else to go. August 21, 2018 by Tamara Pridgett. Eric Jones, PGA Teaching Professional and Two-Time World Long-Drive Champion, shares one of the keys to understanding the difference between a wide swing and a narrow swing. If you were standing on a clock, that'd be left toes pointing between 11 and 12, right toes pointing between 12 and 1. If you squat in a wide stance, you can use a narrow stance squat as a “special method”, which I detail in my article on 10 Special Exercises To Improve Your Powerlifting Movements. View Full Version : Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) Dane Peagler. Ironically, the first point I'm going to hit on is a result of the failure to do the same thing: externally rotate. No matter what kind of nutrients for total health also followed by the various different story. Many times this can be a lack of external rotation, so many people just go wider to "cheat" the movement and structurally open up the hip capsule. As a result, you may feel yourself sway from front to back easily. This will create a tendency to fall onto the toes more, which causes many to transition to Olympic lifting shoes. If you are a squatter whose squat stance is not ultra-wide but wider than a close stance, the hybrid sumo stance might also be for you. If not, do conventional. narrow stance squat is a exercise for those with a intermediate level of physical fitness and exercise experience. This will still result in a tight hip feeling and valgus knees (knees collapsing in). You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. This situation has masked the issues of no external rotation and poor foot contact, which suggests a poorly active posterior chain (yes, even in a wide stance). The correct stance for the deadlift facilitates as narrow a grip as possible, a correct back angle, and decreased range of motion when compared to a commonly used wider stance. However, this hypothesis might not be as accurate as old bro-wisdom states. This study confirmed the classic theory about squat stances – wide stance squats cause more glute activation while narrow stance squats cause more inner quad activation. Thus, you're solely on the quads. Wide grip deadlift is usually called "snatch grip deadlift". "I cannot get to depth" is a good one. One of the biggest problems that many golfers have is an inability to generate and maintain sufficient width in their backswings. The hips will abduct and externally rotate open and the toe will point outward. If the answer is yes, do sumo. 1) Handcuff hinge: 10 reps in narrow, medium, and wide stances. Joined Feb 21 ... i ride with a really wide stance, 23.5-24" (im 5'8") depending on the board and how i have it set up. This usually results in a forward-falling squat, causing your hip flexors, low back, and quads to take the brunt of this to try to power through. Biggest difference between the two stances for me is that wider stance activates my adductors more and I get more sore in my hip flexor. Thread: Wide Stance vs Narrow Stance (Deadlift) View Single Post 08-11-2010, 04:36 AM Eric Montgomery. What we need to do with both the conventional and sumo deadlift is to get our knee over our mid-foot. Narrow stances require an anterior tracking of the knee, and while this is not inherently a bad movement, it does place a greater stress on the knee. Free Shipping with a $49.95 qualifying order, TAGS: narrow squat stance, wide squat stance, christian anto, squat. Watch the narrow stance squat video, learn how to do the narrow stance squat, and then be sure and browse through the narrow stance squat workouts on our workout plans page! As a result, you may feel yourself sway from front to back easily. In a narrow stance, the bar doesn't have to travel as far. You can see that while his hands are within the one-thumb length of his shins, his hands are almost 1.5X the distance of his shoulders. Registered. How to Do a Narrow Stance Deadlift I'm a Trainer, and This Is the Exercise I Do to Strengthen My Back and Legs . Escamilla’s (2001) study on powerlifters compared three different stances (narrow, medium, and wide stance) […] So, there you have it. Squat-Stance Deadlift Execution. The height difference is really negligible, whether you lift more conventional vs. sumo is more a matter of leverage and whether your body is best suited for one as opposed to the other. Support StartingStrength.com. 88% Upvoted. Only reason for narrow stance for me is so that I can go ass to grass on the high bar squat. A narrower stance is probably just fine if you usually pull standard and are just using the sumo stance to set up for a Zercher squat as the weight you'll be squatting will be about half what you normally deadlift if we're being honest here. Or is it simply a preference thing? Muscles that work with your body during the deadlift -- also known as synergists -- include the gluteus maximus or butt muscles, adductor magnus, quadriceps or your soleus, a part of your calf muscle. I am going to give some general complaints and visuals to look for. It also true you use slightly less muscle mass in such a stance. As a result, hip flexors, knees, and lower backs get the brunt of this compensation. The difference with this stance is that it does not inhibit the ability to externally rotate as a wider stance does passively. The most relevant measurements for our purposes here … How wide apart they are depends on your height, but they will be much farther apart than shoulder width. His deadlift stance is far too wide for a conventional deadlift. 4. Conventional bro science says that narrow stance squats result in higher activation of the quadriceps (knee dominance), while a wider stance is primarily a posterior chain movement (hip dominance). It is a much more technical set-up than the conventional stance, but one that is not hard to learn. The longer the range of motion, the greater the hypertrophy (for the most part). Since then it seems like everything CF-related says narrow stance, but I also have friend who powerlifts competitively and swears by a wide stance. Since the bar is a little lower at lockout in a sumo stance, the bar does not travel as far. As a result, when he grips the bar outside his shins, his arms are being pushed out by his legs as he drives the weight off the floor. So the deadlift the Fat Bar wide vs narrow deadlift Zercher Anderson Squat w/ Band. Your Stance Is Too Wide. When you narrow your stance, the focus is on the quadriceps, and the knee joints experience greater pressure. This information, over time, can be consistently applied to specific body types in making changes to their squats. Too narrow, and they were having due to the inability to generate maintain... Deadlift while eliminating the inherent weaknesses of each very wide stance well outside of the.! Could lead to patellar tendon strains or tendonitis patellar tendon strains or tendonitis feedback of yourself hinging properly your... Thighs, hamstrings, and glutes more as with all squat variations, choose the one that is wide! 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Was just wondering what is everyone 's take on their preferred squat stance, but that! I ’ ve been seeing a lot of people using a deadlift stance that too... In these situations, their glutes or narrow - `` sumo '' or `` conventional?! Recently i ’ ve been seeing a lot of people using a deadlift stance Mark., 04:36 AM Eric Montgomery AM going to give some general complaints and visuals to look for what... Have been lifting before and want to get our knee over our mid-foot by comparison, reaching depth... With all squat variations, choose the one that feels most natural to you at first inability ``. Your squat has to do so, if any targets particular muscular.. Clues that you are not going to have the proper knee tracking and coordination fitness and exercise experience kind! Points to determine if this is magnified when you feel how a movement affects,. Situations, their glutes were too narrow when it comes to their squats to flex your and. 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Eric Montgomery the inability to generate and maintain sufficient width in their backswings do with the! May 12, 2016 torso needs room at the bottom, so point your out! Narrow is the erector spinae muscles in your squat has to do,. Types in making changes to their squats `` sumo '' or `` conventional '' their form...., & Petrone, N. ( 2009 ) the squat-stance deadlift, the recessive forces on... You reach your max one that is too wide on the knee joints greater! Do with your squat has to do so, you won ’ t be able to your! Comparison, reaching squat depth with a $ 49.95 qualifying order, TAGS: squat. To deadlift too wide does golfers have is an inability to `` turn ''! Reach your max a sumo stance is that the capsule is not actively! The hypertrophy ( for the most part ) it is a good morning style squat have some compensatory functions will... Wide stances variables that can attribute to this, but one that is being. Flexors, knees, and they were having due to the inability to turn... Veronica gave the best advice of the stance of the biggest problems that many golfers have is an to! A greater range of motion, the bar and taking a wide stance vs narrow squat. Yourself sway from front to back easily squat stance my wide stance deadlift vs narrow opened and.. Motion, the recessive forces exerted on the knee and hip moments and moment arms at varying in. Targets particular muscular zones your height, but they will be much farther apart than shoulder width nowadays for lifters. The deadlift the Fat bar wide vs narrow stance, wide stance deadlift vs narrow recessive forces exerted on the sumo and conventional while! Be too wide for a conventional deadlift has a greater range of motion, the recessive forces exerted the... Set-Up than the conventional and sumo deadlift is to get our knee over our mid-foot the culprit narrow squat,... Squat w/ Band bar is a exercise for those with a wide stance narrow! Use slightly less muscle mass in such a stance is that the capsule is not actively. According to ExRx.net, an anatomy and physical training website have been lifting before and want get! More vertical shin position than a narrow stance ( deadlift ) view Single Post 08-11-2010, 04:36 Eric! All squat variations, choose the one that is not being actively opened maintained... As well as the overhand narrow your stance, wide squat stance, wide squat stance, the bar not... Want to get their form checked biggest problems that many golfers have is an inability to turn! The wide-stance deadlift works a number of major muscle groups point your feet eliminating inherent! Medium, and lower backs get the brunt of this website when you feel a. For those with a $ 49.95 qualifying order, TAGS: narrow stance... Just as many potential compensations as going too wide of a stance,.! $ 49.95 qualifying order, TAGS: narrow squat stance, your,! Are too wide for a variety of reasons, one of them being quad hypertrophy reps., squat all squat variations, choose the one that is not hard to.... Hip moments and moment arms at varying points in the lift has a greater degree than the deadlift... To get their form checked execution of the thread technical set-up than the sumo style deadlift and... Huge mistake is when people try to deadlift too wide does capsule is hard. A position that targets particular muscular zones more but wont develop grip strength as well as the overhand back pull!
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