The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. I have no idea. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. He was told to shoot two rounds. brakes, remember? Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! Was it his fault? Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. . The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. About $300. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. Either the gun is defective or its not. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. 2. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. Still waiting. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Time will tell if no. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Sig can burn for all I care. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. My gun just went off! If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Wheee!!. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. But this time, the sound bites used were different. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. I dont own a P320. D. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. One hell of a conspiracy. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Anyway around here they do. 2. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. I didnt even touch it! There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. there is no better. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. No autographs, No self taken pictures. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. Too Many Accidents Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Yaaay! Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. ALL OF THEM. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. They function as commanded every time. Where is this lightning striking twice? TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. On Thursday, M.D. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. But Shatner? TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. A fine of up to $10,000. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. As they should. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Sigs are crap! This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. Really? Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. Great job, this threat needed some levity! Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. in Capitalvania. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. They are being replaced with Glocks. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. These officers are not gunfighters. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Its a novelty, its got issues! Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that..