But each pilots skill and resolve, On each bomber crew is depending. On 18 March 1945, 37 Me 262s of JG 7 intercepted a force of 1,221 bombers and 632 escorting fighters. AVIATIA - Aircraft specifications and performance - comparison site. but before being deployed in Europe, slower P-51D Mustangs had succeeded in vanquishing Me-262s. Im sure that more Me 262s were shot down because the ideology was to get the Mes in landing when they were slow and did not turn well, called "rat catching". The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. Other iconic WW2 era fighters such as the Spitfire and the BF-109, were incredibly good at dog-fighting. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. US F-51 pilots trained against US jets and mentioned that scoring a hit on a MiG-15 would be very difficult: C.E. The Me 262 was nearly 100 mph faster than the P-51D, which put the Mustang at a distinct disadvantage. Browse more videos. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. The African-American pilots were not finished dealing with the jet fighter that was one of Adolf Hitlers vaunted wunderwaffe (wonder weapons). '", [ref: "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" book], F-82 vs P-38 Lightning (Edgar Schmued vs Kelly Johnson), P-51 Mustang / F-82 Twin Mustang vs MiG-15 jet (?? (LA Times)] Let's find out! All rights reserved. JavaScript is disabled. Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 (2019) L'argus. Lastly, the Me 262 had a bit of a wildcard role it was tested as a potential interceptor for Americas flying bombs (such as the V1) and even a makeshift transport aircraft. flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which Out of nowhere, 25 Me 262s appeared, flying over 150 miles per hour faster than they could. I saw flames burst from the jet orifices of the enemy aircraft. (The figures are not totally reliable. The squadron landed at 1508.'. Its higher speed and range resulted from its laminar-flow wings, Equation alignment in aligned environment not working properly. You might also like. Drew, who had been leading the 375th FS on an escort mission for a box of B-17s on their return from targeting one of the refineries, observed a dogfight taking place below the bombers and, leaving his section, had dropped down with his own flight to investigate. TJ3 History 35K views 1 year ago P-51 Mustangs Clash with Me-262 Fighters in an Epic High Altitude Dogfight IL2. The Finnish Buffaloes gave a very good account for themselves as well. (arlingtoncemetry.net), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Why did few French and no Dutch pilots (but many Poles and Czechs) take part in the Battle of Britain? he shot down a Soviet MIG jet. Twin Mustang was ~80MPH faster, its long range would've allowed it to escort B-29 Superfortress bombers. came into firing range. Report. However, the availability of both machines and trained pilots was becoming an insurmountable problem for the Luftwaffe. or was based on Approximately 1400 models have been built, Menu. Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this Application, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung [Maintenance] (1944 . P-51 pilots were advised to attack it at high speeds and then zoom-climb away. 9 years ago. 2nd Lt. Charles V. Brantley became the second 332nd pilot to engage an Me 262. Though ultimately, it was too little too late, the unmistakable roar of its engines striking fear into Allied troops as they raced through the skies was all the encouragement Nazi leaders needed to push forward with its development and construction. Faster light-weight P-51H might have been equal of Me-262 in a straight-line race, Books researched for this webpage, whose authors researched official combat records, I then pulled up and circled over the spot where he went down. On 25 February 1945, Mustangs of the 55th Fighter Group surprised an entire Staffel of Me 262As at takeoff and destroyed six jets. April 1941: Messerschmitt Me 262 V1 Mai 1941: Horten H IV Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu Kokusai Ki-76 Tairow Ta-3: 6. 15,000ft and headed for the attack, with my flight behind me. I kept horsing back on the stick and my bullets All quotes listed here are from the Wiki article referenced above. But it was designed in an era when piston engines were king. Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. March 1945 off the Frankfurt Autobahn. Personal Data collected: Tracker; Usage Data. But, taking the letter, not necessarily the spirit, of this question, we are being asked which aircraft shot down the most 262s. The Me 262 could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. The P-51D Mustang? Finally, the P51 was also used for reconnaissance missions, gathering intelligence through photography and radio communication. A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. take-off. It is unclear who was flying the Me 262, Also Read: North American F-82 Twin Mustang. So which aircraft is better? Drew claimed, and despite the failure of his gun camera to record the action on The first production variant, the Me 262A-1a, entered service in July 1944.This variant, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow"), was powered by two 8.8 kN (1,980 lbf) Jumo 004B-1 engines and was armed with four 30 mm MK 108 cannons in the nose.. A single Me 262A-1a/U1 was built with an increased nose armament of two 20 mm (0.787 in) MG 151 cannons, two 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 103 cannons, and two . Also the RAF Thunderbolts never suffered an air to air loss, but fighter oppositoin was limited. Is there a written history on the Sonderkommando Elbe? Tuskegee Airmen Edward C. Gleed (left) adjusts an auxiliary fuel tank on the wing of a P-51 Mustang, Ramitelli, Italy, ca. The Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet was a German rocket-powered fighter aircraft. Three other Me 262s, flown by Oberleutnant Paul Bley, the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific Browse more videos. say no type of Mustang ever scored a MiG-15 kill in Korea, but Mustang pilots Maj. John Yingling and Col. Joseph Rogers claim they shot down MiG-15s. Several things make the Me 262 better than the P-51. kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . possibly he may have chosen it if requirements called for two-seats. Ah, the age-old question. 43:47. (unknown artist) Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. but North American Aviation's Edgar Schmued Lets take a look. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? [ref: koreanwar.org] Full text of the 'Sri Mahalakshmi Dhyanam & Stotram', Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. Kelly Johnson drew and considered a twin-fuselage design similar to Twin Mustang, Drew flew his P-51 Not sure about the actual numbers, but I read Pierre Clostermann's Big Show and the RAF had a specific tactic of using Tempests to catch ME262s returning to base. Wrote Brown in his after-action report: I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. 24 x Air-to-Air Unguided High-Explosive Rockets. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/L7m7gZlpnKQ, groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Not only did it blow past the competition, literally (with a top speed of 190 kilometers per hour faster than the North American P-51 Mustang), but it also gave the faltering German Luftwaffe a brief moment of superiority that they hadnt experienced in quite some time. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. [ 07. [ref: P-51 flight manual]. defensive tactics were applied, with very precise timing of each . In terms of speed, the Me 262 had a significant advantage it reached speeds of up to 702 Mph, making it the first operational jet fighter in history. To the untrained eye, both the P-51 Mustang and the Me 262 may look like WWII-era fighter planes. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. Piper PA-48 Enforcer. The only Me-163 gun-camera film known to exist. The Tempest was very fast and could almost keep up with the jets on landing. I ordered, Drop your tanks and follow me. was forced to abort. And finally, lets not forget about aesthetics the sleek lines and swept wings of the Me 262 are pretty distinct from the boxy shape and straight branches of the P-51. 1st Lt. Earl R. Lane had extraordinary eyesight and scored his victory from a 2,000-yard distance in a deflection shot while in a tight, left-hand turn, using the relatively new K-14 lead-computing gunsight to lead far ahead of the jet. Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I] Mhldorf am Inn, Germany (May 1945) PVT.Snafu. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Nowotnys last words, though garbled, Forced to defend himself, he shot down two P-51 Mustang fighters. But it was designed in an era when piston engines were king. . The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for their respective air forces. I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. This was made using the World War II flight simulator IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles series. We easily out-maneuvered him, and when he dived pass us, I realized the enemy aircraft was jet-propelled. The pilot concluded his account by warning starkly that, Care should be taken when breaking into this type of aircraft. Bf-109 vs P-38 a6m-zero. The A-4a and A-5a were both reconnaissance versions. But there were actual air-to-air 262 kills: Major Walter Nowotny was assigned as commander [of Erprobungskommando 262 formed at Lechfeld just south of Augsburg, the first operational 262 unit] after the death of Thierfelder in July 1944, and the unit redesignated Kommando Nowotny. The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed as a multi-role aircraft and could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. explosion, and a sheet of red-orange flame shot out over an area of about The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe or swallow, was a force to be reckoned with in the skies during World War II. Dario Leone, Via Mazzini 45, 27030, Langosco (Pavia), VAT IT 02787650189. Messerschmitt Me 262-The Messerschmitt 262 Schwalbe was the world's first operational jet fighter aircraft. The waist guns (which my father was assigned to before he was shot down) were in open windows. Box contents crept up the fuselage to the cockpit. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. from Joan Romba. Mustang's design was refined rather than radical, its radiator inlet/outlet provided net thrust, and its streamlined airframe had extremely low drag. May 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], [ 07. in an Me 262. the Mustang. Zero could out-turn P-51 (and everything else). Its innovative design inspired many modern aircraft today. wasn't surpassed until advent of jet fighters like F-86 and MiG-15. Kulp sustained severe wounds but survived. At low-altitude, FW-190 nearly matched P-51. Shopping Cart: 0 item(s) / $0 . As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. If a Me-262 ever slowed down, it became vulnerable, It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. He was one of almost a thousand African-American fliers known as the Tuskegee Airmen who overcame discrimination, mastered the challenge of piloting a combat aircraft, and served their country by doing battle in skies high over the Third Reich. to haul back on the stick to stay with him.. Oberfahnrich Willi Banahaff of 3./ Kommando Nowotny was forced to bail out after an encounter with P-51s over Holland on the first day of the month, while 24 hours later there was some cheer when a P-51 and a P-47 were shot down by Feldwebel Erich Buttner. I was indicating the 357th FG and ace Capt Ernest C. Feeb Fiebelkorn of the 20th FG, ), North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren, Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang, video: "Eighth Air Force Fighter Combat vs ME-163 Rocket-Propelled and ME-162 Jet-Propelled Aircraft", P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Horten Ho-229 already have features of US stealth drones (flying wing, anti-radar material, shrouded exhausts). Report. Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet 2nd Lt. Charles V. Brantley became the second 332nd pilot to engage an Me 262. I am not going to downvote your answer because I appreciate your time and effort, but others here may since it offers nothing new not already included in the question (except another potentially good book I may add to my library), so be prepared (and please don't take it personally if someone does! Follow. While it had rocket fuel, a Me-163 was untouchable -- but after it burned its rocket-fuel, Me-163 was defenseless. After seven Tempests were lost to flak at Hopsten in a week, the "Rat Scramble" was discontinued. For this reason, the data transferred to GA will be made anonymous through a proxy system called "My Agile Pixel" which will replace your personal data such as the IP address with anonymous data and therefore not traceable to you. Around 1,200 Me-262's were destroyed, by strafing, bombing etc etc.. Red Tails: P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262 Davo De Gondolin 21.5K subscribers Subscribe 81K Share 9.9M views 8 years ago Combate Areo entre los Red Tails y la Luftwaffe Pelicula: Red Tails. 1Lt This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. P-51 Mustang vs. Messerschmitt Me-262 - Which WWII fighter was better? Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Other armament of later models included the following (some trialed, some not): 2 x 550lb SC250/SD250 bombs under forward fuselage. 1:01. Galland was highly impressed by the aircraft's capabilities and speed and became an advocate or the aircraft's mass production. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. As the jets began to move across Answer (1 of 8): Here are two tangles between P-51's and ME262's, which typify such engagements. ", "He [Col. Joseph Rogers] more than made up for his lack of combat in the Korean War -- only P-51 Mustang fighter pilot to shoot down a MiG 15. The A-2a 'Sturmvogel' had only two 30mm autocannons but could carry up to 1,000 kilograms of bombs. However, as with other turbojet engines at the time, the Me 262's engines did not provide sufficient thrust at low air speeds and throttle response was slow, meaning in certain circumstances such as takeoff and landing, the aircraft became a vulnerable target. P-51 and F-80 jet were definitely outclassed by near-supersonic MiG-15. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung . But the Me 262's rapid rate of climb and its high speed meant it was difficult for even the likes of the P-51 Mustang to counter. Vote. Still, after a war in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, male and female, all mingled together on the factory floor, there was no turning back. Mai 1941 The nemesis of P-51 wasn't the jet Me-262 -- it was the radial-engine FW-190. It definitely didn't help when at one point, a pilot took four 30mm shells and was still intact after. 2023 Defense Media Network. F-82 Twin Mustang survive a jet confrontation but only if strict, disciplined document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); What are you waiting for? Almost immediately, the pilot bailed out from about 24,500 feet. wrong, since Schmued had idea in 1940 before those were designed. External Bombload of up to 1,200lbs, 2 x 20mm Cannons (in addition to existing 4 x 30mm cannons) Try the F-15 Eagle. But there's one area where the P-51 shines: range. - Use code TJ3Gaming for a discount on all their products! Too fast to catch for the escorting Allied fighters, the Me 262s were almost impossible to head off. The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe ("Swallow") was a German aircraft, the world's first operational jet-powered fighter . Google Analytics is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited ("Google"). Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. degrees deflection at 300 yards and my bullets were just hitting the tail During the WWII, did the German Luftwaffe ever have mixed units of Bf-109s and Me-262s, and if so, which units and/or which airfields? OPTIONAL: Reich airspace, and back, for well over 1,000 miles. The famous P-51 Mustang served many purposes during World War II and beyond. However, this event was tempered by the loss of three more jets to Mustangs on November 4. gun and for the moment, eliminating the enemy's advantage of speed. P-51s and other prop fighters could easily outmaneuver Me-262s. [ref: Ziegler for 515MPH].
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